Hi there my friend, today, I’m tackling a big topic: toxic positivity. You’ve probably heard the term before—some people roll their eyes at it, others swear by it. But what is it really, and is there a way to make it work for us rather than against us? 

If you are new here, welcome welcome. I’m your host Lucy Liu, your confidence coach and guide on this self-growth journey. Let’s dive in.

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So What Is Toxic Positivity?

Toxic positivity is the idea that no matter what happens, you should always stay positive. 

It’s the “good vibes only” mindset taken to the extreme. 

I think staying optimistic is a great tool in life and I always say I’m an eternal optimist. 

But, ignoring negative emotions can be harmful. 

When we force ourselves—or others—to always be positive, we dismiss real struggles and emotions that need to be processed.

Think of a time when you were struggling, and someone told you to “just be grateful” or “look on the bright side.” 

Well, these are all very well-intended, but these statements can feel dismissive at the time of pain. They don’t acknowledge pain, frustration, or grief, which are all valid emotions that deserve space. 

Why Do Some People Hate Toxic Positivity?

Many people dislike toxic positivity because it feels fake.

When we push positivity onto someone who’s struggling, it can come across as saying, “Your emotions don’t matter” or “You’re not trying hard enough to be happy.” That’s not fair, right?

Toxic positivity can also create shame around experiencing negative emotions, making other people feel like they’re failing in life, failing at personal growth if they aren’t happy all the time. 

The truth is, real growth comes from processing all emotions—positive and negative.

The Benefits of Positivity—When Used Correctly

So, does that mean positivity is bad? Absolutely not! 

I don’t care how many people hate toxic positivity, I’m still going to choose positivity to the extreme. I’m still going to be an optimist. I’m still going to shine my light, and whenever you are ready, you will receive. Like that saying goes, when you are ready to learn, your teacher will appear. 

In fact, when we use positivity correctly, it can be such a powerful tool for growth. Here’s why:

1. Optimism Fuels Resilience – When we acknowledge our struggles but choose to see possibilities, we build resilience. It’s not about ignoring hardship but believing in our ability to overcome it. More struggles, more resilience, more confidence, more growth. 
2. Positive Self-Talk Improves Confidence – Encouraging words helps shift our mindset from self-doubt to self-belief. Instead of “I’ll never figure this out,” say, “I am capable, and I’ll find a way.”
3. Shifting Perspective – Recognizing the good doesn’t erase the bad, but it does help us focus on what’s within our control. By choosing positivity, we are shifting our perspective and therefore choosing to change our reactions, our thoughts, our feelings and our actions. And only different actions will lead to different results.
4. Energy Attracts Energy – When we cultivate a healthy level of positivity, we attract opportunities and relationships that align with that energy. Because I’m super bubbly and positive, everyone I talk to is positive. My daughter is super positive and confident and you bet every single one of my guests are just incredible human beings. 

Using Positivity in a Healthy Way

The key is balance. Here’s how we can use positivity in a way that supports real self-growth:

• Acknowledge ALL Emotions – Feel your feelings. Don’t suppress sadness, anger, or frustration. They carry important messages about what you need. But set a timeframe so you don’t dwell in negativity for too long. 
• Reframe, Don’t Dismiss – Instead of saying “Don’t be sad,” try “I see you’re struggling. How can I support you?” This applies to self-talk too!
• Allow Space for Growth – Give yourself grace. You don’t have to be happy all the time to be growing. Progress isn’t linear.

And if you had to take anything away from this episode, I want it to be that “We Deserve the Positivity We’ve Built”

Here’s the thing—because I’ve done the work, decades of personal development and inner work, I deserve the positivity I have now. It’s not toxic positivity, it is real authentic positivity.

If you’ve worked through self-doubt, past pain, and limiting beliefs, don’t feel guilty for choosing joy. You earned it! You deserve it! 

The key is making sure our positivity is grounded in self-awareness, not avoidance.

I hope this episode helped you see that positivity isn’t the enemy—it’s all about how we use it. If this resonated with you, share this episode with someone who needs it. And if you haven’t yet, hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode!

Until next time, remember: confidence isn’t about being loud—it’s about being grounded in who you truly are.

And this episode is for you if you or someone around you is going through infidelity or an affair.

We are here to help you or your loved ones expedite the healing journey. And for that exact reason, I have with me my special guest expert today, Laura Cheadle. Laura is a betrayal and recovery coach, legal consultant, bestselling author, international speaker, TEDx speaker, and host of the podcast, Flaunt, Create a Life You Love After Infidelity or Betrayal.

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Welcome to the show, Laura. 

Yay, thank you so much for having me. I’m looking forward to our conversation.

Awesome. Let’s start with why do you think people cheat, even when they are in a happy relationship? Well, we see from the outside, right?

Yeah. And I’m so glad you put that qualifier on it.

Because actually, if you look at the statistics, most people do cheat in happy relationships. It’s such a misnomer that I was miserable, so I cheated. The real reason people cheat is because they’re trying to make themselves feel better inside, whether it’s a lack of validation, whether it’s a midlife crisis, whether a loved one has a cancer diagnosis, and they’re going through something difficult.

People cheat as a tool to try to make themselves feel better. It has nothing to do with the other person and everything about them.

So that sounds like a misconception, right? What are some of the other misconceptions you’ve seen about infidelity?

Yeah, there’s so many of those. One of the biggest misconceptions is once a cheater, always a cheater. Could be, but it’s like saying, once a smoker, always a smoker.

Can you quit? Yes. Once a drinker, always a drinker.

Can you quit? Yes. Like I said earlier, cheating is a tool that we use to try to make ourselves feel better.

And what most people find out when they cheat is it might make you feel better in a moment. It might give you that little sense of something that you need, but then you feel worse and you feel guilty and you feel ashamed. So once you start learning how to identify your emotions, how to ask for what you want, how to nurture and nourish yourself, maybe how to leave a relationship, then the quote need to cheat no longer exists.

And no, you will not be a cheater forever.

Good point. I believe change is possible. That’s where coaching comes in, right?

You mentioned leaving. So that’s a good question. So how should someone, how does a couple decide whether to rebuild their relationship or to leave?

Yeah.

That kind of dovetails into another misconception. Most people end up staying together after infidelity because the infidelity brings to the surface all of the issues that have not been dealt with in the past. And then it’s a catalyst to learn how to communicate, to learn how to advocate, to learn how to deepen the intimacy and create the relationship that they wanted.

So not that I recommend cheating to you, give your relationship a restart, but it’s one of those things that if both partners are committed to uncovering, to figuring the truth out, to listen, to see what was really going on, then they can come back together and create a really solid relationship. But if both partners aren’t interested, that’s when to walk away.

And this, this is why we see our friend going through an affair and they swear they’re going to get a divorce. And then the next time you talk to them, they’re happily back together. 

Yeah. And I know it’s so confusing, but it’s hard.

Deciding to upend your life is hard. Being blindsided by cheating, even if you choose to leave the relationship later, sometimes you need a year to just reground and figure out who am I, what do I want in a relationship? So yes, give people time, give people grace, let them make their own decisions.

So from a friend’s point of view, I would be very glad if they can work out their relationship to be stronger after infidelity. You talked about better communication or dealing with the problems that were just left behind, left on the back burner, right? So what is the first step someone should take after discovering infidelity in order to get there?

Yeah, great question.

The first step is to let yourself grieve, to let yourself feel the pain, whether it’s for you or your friend, let them cry, let them rage, think all the horrible things you want to think, say all the horrible things you want to say to a trusted friend or journal them out, but let your feelings flow. As strong women, as entrepreneurs, we are so used to being like, I’ve got this. I can lean in and I can fix this.

Yes, you can, but later, later you can fix it. Right now you need to cry. You need to wallow.

You need to be a mess on the floor because you’ve got to let those feelings come out first. The key though, is not staying there.

I love that. Yes, so much. Yes.

Give grace to this period. Give yourself grace and know that our emotions are valid. They are valid.

It’s just, this is temporary, right? 

Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And when we deny our emotions, that’s when we create illness or dis-ease in the body.

That’s when mentally we start getting in conflict with ourselves and we ultimately make it worse for ourselves.

Yes. Yes. Like, just like you’re drowning in an ocean.

The more you fight it, the more you’re going to drown. So instead, just stay afloat by doing actually nothing. Right.

Yeah. Yeah.

Journal, grieve, rest, step back. And that’s so hard for us, isn’t it? Because we can do it all, all the time.

Stop. It’s just stop.

I think self-worth has a lot to do with recovery. And I think self-worth and confidence really is at the core, is playing the essential role of recovery. Would you agree with me?

Yes, absolutely. And something that I want to lean into that because yes, there is self-worth, but it’s also, and this is where I think your audience will really understand the most. We are used to doing, we are doers, we are achievers, and self-worth is not performing.

Self-worth is not doing. Self-worth is not how successful we are. Self-worth is how we can be with ourselves, how we can know our own worth, not tied to those external things that we do, but that internal sense.

And that’s hard. That’s really hard for anybody. But I think especially for high achievers to drop in and to own that sense of worth, but you’re right.

That’s where it all starts.

So for your clients, when they are going through difficult times, what are some of the practices and mindset shifts that you help them make in order to go through their healing journey faster?

The biggest one is my work is all encapsulated in the acronym FLAUNT. And I love the acronym FLAUNT because it’s expansive, it’s projecting, it’s owning, it’s being out there. And whenever we’re hurt, we crumble.

Whenever we’re afraid, we shrink. Whenever something goes bad, we hide. And the more we hide, the worse we feel about ourselves.

So my work is really focused on that expansion, that flaunting, not rubbing it in your face and huffing up and being more than you are. But if you’re in pain, be in pain. If you’re vulnerable, be vulnerable.

If you’re proud of yourself because of some amazing accomplishments, be proud. But it’s just flaunting all of you all the time because who you are is always more than enough. So put it out there.

And that’s what my work focuses on is how to be present, how to take up space when things are good, and how to take up space when things are really, really painful.

Beautifully said. Something I’ve taught my girl, myself, is to flaunt in the mirror to herself, like looking in the mirror and telling her how beautiful she is, how amazing she is. And I think it goes a long way when we flaunt ourselves.

I love that. I really love that. And you know, one of the things that I tell my people is we can’t expect other people to see in us what we can’t see in ourselves. And that practice is such a beautiful way of seeing in ourselves all those beautiful things that we want other people to see.

So I love that.

What are some other confidence boosters that you’ve taught your clients during the rebuilding process?

Yeah, one of the biggest confidence boosters is using music to move your body. I am a somatic attachment therapist, and we process through movement. And again, being smart women, we get up in our heads, and we figure things out, and we learn more information.

And we think, think, think, think, think. But we have to flow it in our bodies. And sometimes just having music on reminds us, oh, I can move my shoulders.

Oh, I can shake my hips a little bit. I even tell people, shake your hands. It sounds silly, but sitting there shaking your hands or kicking your feet, it increases the energy, which then increases your confidence.

It drops you out of your head and into your body. And it reminds you, I am a body and my body is strong. And that pumps up your level of confidence too, because look at me go, I can move and I can bring in joy through my body.

And I am me.

I love that so much. A couple episodes back, I did a topic on healing through dancing and where we talked about all you have to do is to dance across the floor from your bedroom to the kitchen. Even that will change your life.

Totally, totally, totally.

And it’s fun. Music is fun. Dancing is fun.

It’s got great benefits, but cut to the chase. It’s fun. Do what’s fun.

Okay. So of course, though, unfortunately there’s going to be trust that’s lost. So how do you help your clients rebuild trust after betrayals?

Yes.

Two points on that. First of all, it’s up to the other person to be trustworthy. It’s not up to you to start trusting them again.

It’s up to them to show up as trustworthy. It’s up to them to do what they say they’re going to do to speak their truth. It’s not up to you.

Second point on that though, is in order to learn how to trust others, whether it’s the person who betrayed you or anybody else, we have to learn to trust ourselves first. And that’s so hard to do. I talk about making unbroken promises to yourself.

How often do you break promises to yourself? All the time. How can you start showing up for yourself?

If you say you’re going to do something, how can you make sure that you do it? How can you start listening to your intuition instead of just your logic? How can you incorporate, you know, we talked about the body, the heart, the mind, the body.

How can you listen to yourself and trust yourself? It’s small steps. It’s a process, but when you do everything opens up and then yes, you can discern if other people are trustworthy or not.

Oh, I love that perspective. It’s the other person. It’s not you.

So never blame yourself, right? Never overthink for yourself. It’s not about you.

That is a great, great reminder.

I love that Laura and your opinion too. What, what do you think is true forgiveness or is that even possible?

Yeah, you know, I have a hard time with the word forgiveness. Just maybe it’s me. Maybe other people are like, no, I’m all in and that’s fine.

For me, the most powerful thing is acceptance. Unconditional acceptance. This happened.

This happened to me. This happened for me. This is what this other person thought, believed, did.

When you can truly accept everything that everybody did from a place of neutrality, not, yeah, I accept that that jerk did this to me, but from a place of, yeah, I accept it. It’s sad. It’s tragic, but I’m neutral about it.

To me, that’s the ultimate goal is ultimate, radical, neutral acceptance instead of forgiveness. To me, forgiveness implies a hierarchy that I’m somehow better than you and that I can now forgive you. And I, I don’t like that hierarchical thinking.

That’s another great mindset shift. Yes. I think it’s these little mindset shifts that add up together to a better tomorrow.

Yeah, absolutely. And you’re still right there. Little mindset shifts, but keep working with them.

And then suddenly you just start feeling free and start becoming free.

And it’s your decision. I mean, there’s no right or wrong answer here, right? Laura and I are here just to help you recover, but it’s after all, it’s your life.

You get to decide if you want to rebuild the relationship, make it stronger or, or it’s okay to walk away.

Yeah, absolutely. Do what you want to do. Trust yourself.

This is about that internal process. What does my head say? What does my gut say?

What does my heart say? Trusting yourself, not what does my neighbor think? And what does my sister think?

But what do I think?

So for those who’s decided they are going to walk away, can you give them some inspiration as to what their best steps are? 

Yes. First of all, if you’re going to walk away, don’t get caught in the belief that walking away is going to heal everything. When you walk away, you still have to heal the wound of betrayal. You have rights.

Advocate for yourself. Ask questions. See more than one attorney.

See more than one mediator. Ask questions. 

Don’t ever feel ashamed that I should know better.

You deserve a lot. You deserve to understand. Even if you don’t get what you hoped, understand why you’re not entitled to that under the law.

Ask questions. 

Your life will be better than you think on the other side.

Seek help. Yes, you are not alone.

Because so many people when I was practicing law, you hear, you connect with people, you understand the law because it’s your business. You see their eyes glazing over, but then they’re not asking you questions. So you can’t bridge that gap and help them understand.

So ask. Don’t be ashamed that you don’t know something. Just keep asking.

Beautifully said. Laura, in your days when you need a picker upper, is there a favorite quote that you go by in life?

It’s an Einstein quote. I don’t always get the exact quote right, but it’s like the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. And why I love that and why I go back to it is so often I realize I’m on autopilot.

And why am I doing the same thing and expecting a different result? Whether it’s in a relationship, in business, in a friendship, do something differently.

I love that. Thank you so much for sharing. So for someone who needs more help or want to check out your work, where can they go?

My website, laurachetal.com. And my name, Laura, is L-O-R-A, not the traditional spelling of Lora.

Thank you so much. And I’ll be linked in the show notes. 

Thank you.

If you’ve ever felt like you don’t quite fit into the “introvert” or “extrovert” box, this episode is for you.

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In Chinese culture we celebrate Chinese New Year for 15 days, so I am still in the new lunar new year spirit so again Happy New Year! May the New Year continue to bring you joy, success, blessings and endless new possibilities! .

And as the new year approached I came to a really big revelation about my own life that’s been very eye opening to myself.

For the longest time, I thought of myself as a weirdo because I am super introverted, I speak on confidence, I live and breathe wanting to help others be more confident, yet I love being the quiet one in the room, I love being by myself.

So the strange part has always been that I’m at the same time extroverted. I love being around other human beings, I love to speak publicly and I don’t have a problem standing up for my thoughts.

Even taking personality tests, one year I’m introverted, the next year I’m extroverted. I always thought how weird am I?

For many years, I told myself I’m not weird, I’m unique, I’m limited edition, I’m special.

But it wasn’t until recently I discovered the word “ambivert” and I finally feel truly at ease knowing that I am an ambivert.

So today, we’re going to break down what it means to be an ambivert, how it can be a strength, and how we can use this personality trait to fuel our self-growth. Let’s get into it!

So what does ambivert mean? What is the meaning of ambivert?

According to the Cambridge Dictionary an ambivert is a person who has features of both an introvert and an extrovert in their personality. Ambiverts are sometimes also called outgoing introverts or social introverts or extroverted introverts. 

Because I so resonate to be an ambivert myself of course I went down the rabbit hole of learning all about ambiverts.

Most people don’t actually strongly identify as introverts or extroverts. Ambiverts naturally engage in a flexible pattern of both talking and listening.

In the right context, in the right mood, around the right people, ambiverts can be extroverted. But even though an ambivert typically enjoys other people, we also need time alone.

If you are like me, you’ve loved a party or an event one day but needed a full day of solitude afterward, you might be an ambivert!

There are alot of Pros of Being an Ambivert

1. Adaptability: One of the biggest strengths of ambiverts is their ability to adapt. Whether in a meeting, at a networking event, or working alone on a project, you can adjust your energy accordingly.
2. Great Listeners & Communicators: We are great listeners because ambiverts understand both introverted and extroverted tendencies, we can be excellent communicators, knowing when to speak up and when to listen.
3. Emotionally Intelligent: Since we can relate to both ends of the spectrum, ambiverts often have strong emotional intelligence, helping us connect with different personality types. Isn’t that amazing?

Now that we know the strengths of being an ambivert, how can we use them for personal growth?

Here are some ideas:

1. Honor Your Energy Cycles – This is really important! Pay attention to when you need social interaction and when you need rest. Schedule accordingly to prevent burnout.
2. Use Your Adaptability to Your Advantage – If you’re in a social setting and feel overwhelmed, lean into your introverted side. If you’re feeling stuck in isolation, push yourself to go out and socialize.

Now I totally think being an ambivert is a superpower. 

You get to experience the best of both worlds and use that flexibility to grow in ways that others might not be able to.

The key is to recognize your own patterns and embrace them fully.

So, are you an ambivert? Let me know! I’d love to hear your thoughts on this. 

Connect with me on Instagram @mslucyliu, and let’s keep the conversation going.

Thanks for tuning in, and as always, stay true to yourself. Until next time!

Happy New Year beautiful souls! Wishing you a year filled with happiness, prosperity, and good health! May this Lunar New Year bring you joy, success, and endless opportunities! May the Year of the Snake bring you strength, wisdom, and great fortune!

In the beginning of every year we always set goals, but unfortunately for many, almost immediately after, we start to give excuses. Oh I can’t because of xyz. You fill in the blank with plenty of excuses. So I’m here to remind you that if it is really what you want, it is possible. Even if you come up with a reason why you cannot accomplish something, there are people out there who’ve done it. This episode serves as a dose of inspiration for you to know that even if you have ADHD you can be focused and consistent and run a successful business. This also goes with any other conditions or difficult circumstances that you might be going through. There is always a way and believe that more blessings are coming your way! 

My guest today is Skye Waterson who is a former academic PhD turned ADHD Coach For High-Value Entrepreneurs. She is the host of the ADHD Skills Lab and the Founder of Unconventional Organization, an international ADHD support service that provides research-backed coaching programs for late-diagnosed ADHD professionals looking to go to the next level in their career without burnout and breaking ADHD stigma one successful CEO at a time. Not only does she run a successful business having ADHD, her entire work team has been diagnosed with ADHD and everyone is thriving.

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FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

You are so amazing. You run a business and you had ADHD.

So what are the symptoms of ADHD?

Yeah. ADHD symptoms, they include hyperactiveness, impulsivity. If you have primarily the attention deficit, it can also be a distraction.

Yeah. So lots of different kinds of symptoms related to executive functioning.

So what causes ADHD then?

Genetics is kind of what we know at the moment. There’s still looking into whether there are any sort of other lifestyle factors that could be affecting it. But at the moment, we just know it’s a genetic genetic causes.

And from what I understand, there are different types of ADHD, right?

Yes. Yes. You can have primarily hyperactive, primarily inattentive, or you can have combined type like myself, where you’ve got a little bit of both.

Can you talk about a little more about the different types?

Yeah, definitely. So primarily hyperactive is one of the biggest things for that is, you know, you feel driven by a motor, you know, so you’re very on the go, maybe more of the impulsiveness, more of the sort of out, outward demonstrations of ADHD, you know, talking, fidgeting, all of those kinds of things, whereas primarily inattentive is more of the struggling with focus and attention. And so it might not be as obvious to other people that you have it, but it is as much of a struggle.

And then combined type kind of brings those two things together.

So do you have to get tested in order to know for sure that you have ADHD?

Yeah. So you can, you know, do a lot of testing, you know, on the internet, there’s lots of resources out there. That’s the one way a lot of people find out they might have it, but to actually know you have ADHD, you need to get a diagnosis.

Yeah.

And how does that work?

You can go to a psychiatrist and that’s often through a private channel. You can go to a psychiatrist and they will give you a variety of testing. So with our clients, we hear all kinds of different ways, but eventually, you know, they go through a survey.

They might talk to your family. They might do some, you know, brain scans depending on who they are and what kind of support they need to make that decision. And then, yeah, they’ll find out if you have ADHD or if you have some other, you know, neurodiversity or maybe something else entirely.

Does ADHD ever go away?

So that’s an interesting question that that’s been sort of argued a lot in different spaces, but basically what we find is that ADHD, to get diagnosed with ADHD, you need to struggle with executive functioning and other things. Obviously I’m not giving the full diagnosis here. And for some people that they may find that their struggles can reduce.

And so therefore they wouldn’t meet the criteria for ADHD, but ADHD itself is like a neurobehavioral condition. It doesn’t, it doesn’t go away, but it might shift in terms of what it looks like. And in fact, we want it to shift because one of the things that we do in coaching is we help you with those executive functioning challenges that you can have.

So what was your own journey with ADHD?

So for myself, I was diagnosed with ADHD at the start of my doctorate, which was quite a good, interesting time. I went in thinking I might have dyslexia or something like that. And I came out realizing that, yeah, I had, I had ADHD.

And so I was really interested in it. I learned a lot and I learned a lot about how I was already, and then other strategies for supporting it. Because it’s not just about the negatives, although we do talk about that, there is research that people with ADHD are more likely to be entrepreneurs, are very, you know, have original thinking, all of those kinds of different things.

So being able to support the struggles while spotlighting those strengths is kind of what we’ve been doing as part of our organization.

So what would you say would be the strength of being an ADHD and running a business?

I think it’s probably problem solving and original thinking. So there’s research to show that people with ADHD tend to have this strength when they did studies with neurotypicals and people who had ADHD. And I definitely find that for myself, when I was in the workplace, people would often say, Oh, I never thought about it like that.

Or I never thought that way when I was kind of problem solving. And now in my own organization, it’s really helpful to be able to kind of think outside the box a bit more when it comes to problem solving in business, because we definitely have a lot of problems to solve in business.

And that’s the core of running a business is to have a problem to solve, right?

Exactly.

Would you say there are any cons of running a business with ADHD?

Yeah, I think one of the biggest is it can, it can be very overwhelming. I mean, obviously it can be overwhelming in general, but there’s a lot of administrative work, especially when you’re starting out that goes into running a business that can really bog you down with ADHD and can make it very hard for you to progress. And so being able to find strategies to support that, finding an assistant, for example, figuring out how to get them to help you.

I have an assistant who kind of taps me on the shoulder, you know, Hey, when you do this, when you do that, and that makes everything so much easier when it comes to working with ADHD.

So you actually have a neurodiverse team running your business, right? What’s that like?

It’s great. It’s great. We all talk very fast, well, depending on who it is, but yeah, most of our most of my organization is neurodiverse.

All of our coaches are diagnosed with ADHD. It’s very, I imagine it’s very unique, but for us it feels very normal, but it is about sort of figuring out where everybody fits in the same way as you would in any organization. But particularly in this case, understanding, you know, people have what they call a spiky profile where they’d very good at some things and not very good at others.

So really understanding, you know, where somebody’s strength is and putting them in that part of the organization, giving them freedom in that area. And then maybe saying, Oh, you actually love to write. Why don’t we do that?

Or you love to do research. We could add that and kind of keeping people engaged as is a really big part of what we do.

So you work with a lot of clients that are in the same situation. So what are some other examples that you’ve seen with entrepreneurs? What other strength or struggles can you talk about to inspire our audience who have possibly think they have ADHD themselves, but still run a successful business?

Yeah. Yeah. I think often it can feel overwhelming things like hiring, for example, or turning on sales funnels, the, the executive functioning tasks that, you know, bog us down in the day to day reports processes, you know, having to build those processes can be a real struggle.

And, and I think it’s important to know that, you know, a lot of people with ADHD end up in the, in the entrepreneurial space. It’s something that we have a lot of strengths for. So if you have it, you know, this is an area that you are, you know, designed to do in many ways, but there are those struggles and it’s important to know how to solve them in order to then just keep doing what you’re doing and keep, keep growing because it is possible.

I guess is what I would say. Don’t feel disheartened. If you think, Oh, I have ADHD and I run a business.

That’s awesome. But it’s just, you know, there’s just a little bit of tweaking that sometimes needs to be done.

I love that mindset shift and in your days running your business, when it gets tough, what is your favorite quote that you go by to lift yourself up?

The quote that we have in the organization that we use for everything is we rise by lifting others. It’s just a reminder, particularly in what we do, that our goal is to help the other people, both people in the organization, talking to each other, our clients, everyone to kind of help them improve, and then we will improve as well. And so it’s sensing that we’re going to, all support each other.

I love that. That’s beautiful. Let’s rise together.

Thank you. Skye, where can we find you at?

You can find us at www.unconventionalorganization.com or at Unconventional Organization on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn. We have a lot of free resources there, articles about ADHD, articles about ADHD and entrepreneurship. So feel free to check those out.

Beautiful. Thank you.

This episode is for you if you are a small business owner and you want your business to go from unknown to being seen, heard and valued.

And for this very reason I have with me today award winning PR coach Gloria Chou. As a former TV producer and U.S. Diplomat, Gloria spent her entire career using various media to elevate and inspire. Now she is the host of the Small Business PR podcast and has helped over 10,000 small businesses get featured in TOP TIER media without ads or agencies.

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FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Hello, hello, beautiful souls. This episode is for you. If you are a small business owner, and you want your business to go from unknown to being seen, heard and valued.

And for this very reason, I have my expert with me today, award winning PR coach Gloria Cho. As a former TV producer and US diplomat, Gloria spent her entire career using various media to elevate and inspire. Now she is the host of the small business PR podcast and has helped over 10,000 small businesses get featured in top tier media without ads and agency.

Doesn’t that sound amazing? 

Welcome to the show, Gloria. 

Thank you, Lucy.I’m so happy to be here. Awesome. 

So a common theme I hear from coaching calls for whatever goal they’re working on is that they are not ready yet.

So from your perspective, who is ready for PR?

Oh, I love this question. This is the biggest roadblock. I always say, if you’re ready to take a customer’s money for whatever product or service, you’re ready for PR.

And the biggest myth that we’ve kind of all bought into is that the news only wants to cover, you know, big players and businesses of a certain level. And that’s simply not true. And I think this is what the PR industry wants to tell us.

So they can charge us crazy fees. You know, in New York, it starts around $10,000 a month for a retainer. 

But there is another way.

And it starts with you believing that journalists want to interview people from all walks of life. They want to feature fresh, diverse perspectives, not just the big names. Because otherwise, they would probably lose credibility very quickly.

Think about it, right? If they only cover the Elon Musk of the world or like big Fortune 500 companies, no one would really believe them. So you’re actually doing them a favor by putting your name in the hat and just sharing your perspective.

And you’re making their work easier because they are churning out content all the time.

Yes, conventionally, when we hear PR, we think of big agencies, huge budgets, right? But I know your work is all about debunking this myth that you need big budgets. 

So walk us through what kind of budgets do most of your clients work with when they first start PR?

So actually, most of my people are very bootstrapping. So they don’t really have a budget. And if you look at what’s available to them, right, if you want to get more eyeballs, you’re really doing one of three things.

One, you’re pouring all your time into social media, which honestly is not great because you don’t own it. And we know that TikTok is going to be banned. Who knows how long it’s going to take for Instagram’s algorithm to even go harder on us, right?

Right now, all across the board, we’re seeing views are down about 30%. And that’s because they simply want you to pay to boost your reviews. Or you can pay for ads, which historically, they have gone up over 400% in cost in just the last few years.

So that’s really also not great for us too. And let’s be honest, these two methods have no SEO. So you’re not really building a long-term asset.

And that’s why PR, I mean, like earned media, so that’s you getting featured in an article or you being on a podcast, not those scammy DMs that you get about those fake features.

I’m talking about like real organic features. That’s the most highest leverage marketing activity that you can do because it simultaneously checks all the boxes.

Not only does it give you credibility and traffic, but it also gives you SEO. So as founders, we always need to think, am I working smarter and not harder? And am I really creating a long-term asset for my business, which SEO and PR is, or am I just doing busy work?

And so I think having a mindset, a perspective shift of like, I am going to prioritize PR and that it is absolutely available to me. And even if I don’t have to pay an agency is absolutely game-changing for the entrepreneurs who do choose to get featured in the media.

I love what you said. So how do you get in the media for free if you’re just starting your business?

Yeah. So this is a great question. First thing is that let’s just distill what PR is.

And I think for so long, it’s been shrouded in secrecy, complexity, privilege, and at its core, PR is two things. It’s writing a good pitch and sending it out. And if you know how to do those two things, you can put it together and create a system in your business where you’re constantly planting the seeds for visibility because you never know when that garden might flourish.

Journalists have a very meticulous way of organizing their inbox. And so you don’t know when they’re going to be tasked with writing an article and they’re going to go back into their inbox and do a quick search and your name might pop up. This has happened so many times.

Some people get featured right away. Some people get featured three months later. What matters is that you need to throw your name in the hat to get featured.

And so it starts with us knowing that we are ready and that they want to hear from us. And journalists don’t care about how many followers you have. You can buy followers today.

So it’s not a popularity contest. What we need to know is that journalists are not going to buy from you and they don’t care about your product brochure and your benefits and features. So fundamentally, this involves a different way of communicating, right?

As founders, we’re so good at marketing ourselves. But I’m telling you that in order to get featured in the media, you need to take off that marketing hat and put on a different hat. And that hat is one of an expert, of an industry authority.

And so instead of leading with what you sell, who you are, the results, you want to lead with things like what is the seasonality of things? 

Is there any seasonal relevance? Is there a greater news trend?

Is there something trending on social media? Can you give commentary? 

And so I always talk about the 10 top angles that get you featured and seasonality is one of them.

For example, at the time of recording right now, it’s new year. So new year, new angles, habits, wellness routines. If it’s around graduation, it could be something around career advice or job seeking.

If you are in an industry that’s very heavily regulated like pharma or healthcare or taxes or finances, there’s always a change in policy and regulation. And that is always newsworthy. Also think about ways that you can take a contrarian angle.

So if all the experts are saying, do it this way. And you’re saying, I found this to be helpful. That’s a great angle.

Another great angle is to piggyback on what people are already talking about. So right now there’s a lot of news about AI. There’s a lot of news about what’s happening in the world.

So think about what are the changes happening in your industry and how can you pitch according to that? And so these are the big ways that you can start to formulate your story angle. Because remember, there’s no such thing as a newsworthy company or product.

I’ve written pitches for bath salts and candles. They all get featured. It’s just about tailoring your story into something that has seasonality and relevance to the news cycle.

Would you say pitching is a numbers game or more of a strategy and technique? Yeah, I think it’s both. I think once you have your three or four buckets of topics that you want to talk about, and then you have your…

Again, remember PR is writing a pitch and sending it out. And then you have your media list of who to send it to. And obviously in our program, we have a database of like 100,000 journalists.

Then it becomes a numbers game. Yes, because you want to be able to keep sending it out and you want to keep following up. A lot of times the biggest mistake is that, okay, the founders sent a pitch and then they’re hiding in the bathroom because they’re like, oh my God.

It’s a very unnatural act. And so don’t feel bad that you’re afraid or anxious, but just know that this is how news has been for decades. They accept cold pitches.

Journalists understand that people cold pitch them. And it’s just a matter of doing it and feeling comfortable pressing that send button. I had a student who actually ended up selling his company and now he’s building his third startup.

And he got so much press success. And he told me, everything you want is on the other side of that send button. So if we can orientate ourselves and realize that it’s just a numbers game and you just have to keep pressing that send button, it becomes less daunting.

And trust me, from all the journalists I’ve talked to, they’re not sitting there on their thrones, judging us, thinking, oh, well, this Gloria sent me a pitch again. No, they don’t have time for that. They are writing out stories and it’s just about you putting a story in front of them so that they can use it.

And so always think, how can you be of value to their audience? What is your audience looking for? And there’s ways around that.

You can find out what are the Google search trends, what’s happening. And then there’s also other ways you can find journalists. So we can definitely go into that.

But I’ve given you what to think about in terms of what to write. And the other part of PR is, okay, now you have what you want to write, who do we send it to? And you can find that online.

I mean, this is public information, but I would first install a Google News Alert, which is free, by the way, Google News Alert about your industry. And it’ll give you all the articles written about on your topic every day. And it’s as simple as you copy and pasting the writer’s first name, last name, and email, which is again, public information into an ever-expanding Excel spreadsheet.

And then sooner or later you have your own media list. You can also use things like Quoted or Haro, which now has changed. But basically there’s all these websites where you can sign up as a source and journalists are looking for people to interview every day.

And you kind of can see what the inquiries are. And if you do fit the description, then you can respond, right? You can also follow hashtags on social media, whether it’s LinkedIn or Twitter.

And a hashtag I like to follow is journal requests. And it means that journalists are requesting certain types of interviews with different people. So these are kind of the grassroots way you can kind of figure out who might be interested in writing about you in a kind of a more reactive way.

But let’s talk about other times of year, right? How do you just pitch a story if they’re, let’s say, not saying, oh, I need to interview someone. Well, one way to do it is to know that you need to find who are the writers covering your industry or beat.

So you’re not going to be sending an email to editor at buzzfeed.com because they’re not reading it. You need to find out who is the specific industry writer. So if you are someone in fitness and health, it might be the fitness or health writer.

If you are someone who makes a physical product, it might be the shopping or commerce writer, commerce writer. If you’re in travel and luxury, it could be a person that covers travel. So do you see where I’m getting at?

You want to find the specific writer who is writing about your topic. A lot of writers now are freelance, which means that they write for multiple outlets and they’re constantly kind of rotating around. And you can find out where they’re writing by just simply going to their Instagram bio or their Twitter or LinkedIn bio to see where they’re writing.

That was a lot of goodies. Thank you so much for sharing, Gloria. 

And I remember in the early stage of me pitching to be on other people’s podcasts or opportunities, it was really daunting to hit that send button, as you talked about, right?

It’s about just hitting that send button, but it’s it could be hard in the beginning. And what helped me was instead of hitting send, like getting that emotional roller coaster ride right away, I used to schedule them out for another time, like in the afternoon or the following morning so that it didn’t feel so stressful. And then when it actually went out, it wasn’t on my mind. So that took off a lot of load for me. 

Yeah, no, that’s so good.

And you can also schedule send, right? Like there’s a lot of different things where it’s like, as long as you have your pitch, you load it in there and then you can schedule send. And here’s another great tip for your audience is don’t send any emails until you have an email tracking software.

And this is great because it tells you if someone is opening your email, if someone is clicking it. And that way we don’t have to have this drama in our head about, oh, this journalist hates us because honestly, they don’t care about you. They’re very busy.

And so if they’re not opening it, we need to solve for that first. So is it a deliverability issue? Is it an out of office issue?

And then if the email tracking device is saying that they’ve opened it and they’re actually opening it multiple times, your pitch, it means that they really like it. They’re just looking for a place for it. That’s when you would go in with a followup, engage with their content.

Remember, journalists are people and they have egos. So like compliment them and say, hey, I love the article that you wrote last year on this. Are you doing the same for this year?

Or I think it’s fabulous that you wrote an article on this. So like having a compliment and like showing them that you’ve read their article is such a great way to start an email off.

Such good advice. I love it. I love my email tracking.

And that goes the same with clients who, if they’ve opened my mail eight times, you know, they’re more interested than someone who’s just opening it once. Right. So it goes a long way.

You talked about mistakes. I love what you mentioned. Are there any other mistakes that you’ve seen people do wrong with PR?

Yeah. So I teach a proprietary CPR pitching method and that’s from just cold pitching thousands of times. So fun fact for your audience, I’ve never worked a day in my life in any PR or marketing agency.

So being an outsider and not having any contacts, I had to cold call the operator at the New York Times. And I think from just cold calling and emailing and just getting honestly rejected so many times, I started to figure out, okay, what gets someone to respond and what doesn’t. And I put it in this framework called CPR method, which I teach inside my program.

But basically CPR stands for credibility, point of view, and relevance. And you want your pitch to have all three elements. And so if I’m pitching someone, let’s start with the subject line.

The subject line should not have your name, your company name, or the word pitch in it, because it’s relevant to the journalist. Instead, you want to have something that’s timely and specific. For example, three top communication tools for 2025 for introverts.

Do you see how that’s timely, relevant, and specific? And then if you are to start the email off, you want to start off with the relevance, which is the R in CPR first, because you want to get their attention right off the bat. So talk about as people are looking for X, Y, and Z tools to start off the new year, because right now it’s Q1.

Do you see how that’s relevant? And then you have the P in CPR, which is point of view. So usually three bullet points.

So that could be three insights, three tips, three contrarian things, three data points. And then you want to conclude with one sentence credibility. 

Don’t go too crazy here.

You don’t need to have lots of previous press mentions. It could be as simple as, I am a founder, and here’s what I’ve noticed with my audience. I’m happy to chat more about these insights, and here’s how I can be reached.

Do not attach your pitch deck or your resume, please. It’s going to trigger their spam filter. Instead, use a hyperlink and say, I’m happy to share more.

Here’s my story. You can click here. If you are in e-commerce or product, you could probably embed one photo because it’s visual.

And then for more photos, you can attach a link to a Dropbox link or more high resolution photos. So use the hyperlink.

Love your tips. Thank you so much for your knowledge. And if people want to learn more about doing PR the easy way, where can they find you?

Yeah, for sure. So I have a free PR masterclass that actually shows you word for word, a CPR pitch. I got someone featured 12 times without any PR agency experience or context.

And I show you like word for word. And you can watch that at Gloria Chow PR dot com slash masterclass. That’s Gloria Chow PR dot com slash masterclass.

And I’m on Instagram as well. So I share a lot. I share anything from healing generational trauma with my mom to funny Cardi B memes.

So you’re in for a ride. 

You can hit me up on Instagram at Gloria Chow PR. And if you DM me the word pitch, I will also give you an additional freebies that you can take the first stab at your CPR pitch.

Beautiful. And what is the favorite quote you go by in life?

Oh, I love this quote by my Maya Angelou. And she said people will not remember what you said and what you did. But they will always remember how you made them feel.

I love this so much. Thank you for being with us. 

Thank you, Lucy.