Wanna learn how to live fearlessly in business and life?

No matter what industry or line of work you do, we are all the same, we are all human, and every human being on the planet gets stopped by fear.

So if you’ve ever faced fear and look to uplevel your life, this episode is for you. 

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Guest Rhonda Britten is an Emmy Award-winner, Repeat Oprah guest, and Master Coach.

She has changed lives in over 600 episodes of reality TV, authored four bestsellers, including her “Fearless Living” which has been translated into 16 languages.

She is also a standing Ovation Keynote Speaker, Fear expert, podcast host and has been read, heard, and watched by millions.

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Hello, hello, beautiful souls, no matter what industry or line of work you do, we are all the same. We are all human and every human being on this planet gets stopped by fear. So if you ever faced fear and look to uplevel your life, this episode is for you.

And I’m super excited to introduce to you my incredible guest today, Rhonda Britton. Rhonda is an Emmy Award winning repeat Oprah guest and master coach. She has changed the lives in over 600 episodes of reality TV authored for bestsellers, including her fearless living, which has been translated into 16 languages.

Isn’t that amazing? She is also a standing ovation keynote speaker, fear expert podcast host and has been read, heard and watched by millions. And we would be here all day if we listed out all of her accomplishments.

So let’s dig in. Welcome to the show, Rhonda.

I’m so excited to be here, Lucy, you’re just so delightful.

I can’t wait to get into this conversation.

Rhonda, you founded the fearless living Institute. So let’s start there.

What does fearless living mean to you?

Well, it definitely doesn’t mean you don’t have fear, right? Because fearless living really is about the willingness to master fear, we’re never going to get rid of fear. It’s part of our neurobiology.

And I think that’s where the misnomer is, right? The way people say, be fearless. And they go, well, I can’t be fearless because I have fear.

I go, yes, of course you do. Right? So it’s part of our neurobiology.

You’re not going to get rid of fear, but what you can do is understand how it works so that it doesn’t decide your life for you. You decide your life. And that takes a little extra attention, a little extra effort.

And that’s why I created something called the wheel of fear and the wheel of freedom to help you understand how fear works. I think the number one thing people tell me after they get their wheel of fear, their personalized unique wheel of fear and wheel of freedom is now I know why my life is the way it is. It explains everything, why you got married, why you got divorced, why you went to college, why you quit that job, everything.

It’s a mental model that you can use and apply to any part of your life.

Fear could be actually our friend. Would you agree?

Oh gosh, fear. I’m going to tell you something that I’ll never forget. I was on Steve Harvey’s show and I said this to him and he literally practically fell out of his chair.

And it is fear loves you. So fear loves you. Every emotion that you have, every feeling slash emotion, and we’re going to use those interchangeably right now, is a part and parcel of what you need in order to move your life forward.

So they’re just energy. Feelings are just energy. And they’re all here for a reason.

They’re all here for a reason. And fear is here for one reason and one reason only to keep you safe. The challenge is, is because we don’t understand how it works.

And we’ve all probably by now understand neuroscience and the brain and we’ve done a little bit of research in that. But that doesn’t necessarily tell you how it applies to your life. We don’t see it in 3D, so to speak, in our lives.

When you understand how fear works, everything changes.

Is that what happened to you? Did you see fear as a friend and that’s how you change your own life?

[Speaker 1]

Oh, no. First of all, and I think many people are like me, I never even thought I was afraid. So the joke of the century, the irony is that I actually work with fear because I grew up in upper Michigan, little tiny town.

I’m from Finnish heritage, which means we don’t feel. And so I never, even during my worst days, which I’ve had horrible, decades, really tragic and horrific decades and self-destructive decades. During all of that, I would have never said I’m afraid.

Never. I just thought I was crazy or I was stupid or I was procrastinating. And that’s the trick of fear.

Most people like me don’t know they’re afraid. Like I said, I didn’t know I was afraid, but what I’ve done in my book Fearless Living is I give you, and I’ll just do this real quick, just give you a couple little instances. Is that fear shows up in different ways for different people.

It sometimes shows up as anxiety, sometimes procrastination, sometimes pretend manipulation, defending yourself, blaming, deflecting, controlling, getting bitter, resentful, selfish, powerless, isolating yourself, settling, whining, hiding. All of these things are not because you’re wrong or you’re stupid or you’re crazy. It’s because there’s a fear underneath there.

The fear produces those fear responses. So you don’t procrastinate, you don’t deny, you don’t hide, you don’t become powerless, you don’t become a perfectionist unless there’s fear underneath. So most people go to try to solve the problem of, well, I’m perfectionist, I need to solve my perfectionism.

And I say, go for it, knock yourself out, go to perfectionism school, knock yourself out. Yet unless you really kind of dig in and understand how fear works holistically, something else will pop up. I’m sure we’ve all experienced, we thought we solved something and then all of a sudden it pops up again.

You’re like, well, I thought I saw this. Well, that’s because fears come play with you a different way.

Thank you for sharing. And to me, one of the top fears of life that I’ve seen is the very basic fear that I’m not good enough. Kind of related to what you talked about earlier, you’re procrastinating, you’re not doing it.

There’s the underlying fear that you’re telling yourself that you’re not good enough. And it changed my life when I instilled the mantra that enough is a decision. So is there anyone alive that somewhere deep down inside doesn’t have that basic fear of I’m not good enough?

Well, what I like to say about fear of not being good enough is that’s the generic version of a wheel of fear. So the wheel of fear has four parts. And if somebody doesn’t know their wheel of fear, that’s normally when they go, I fear of rejection, fear of failure, fear of success, fear of all those fears.

But then I go, well, what’s underneath that? They go, and they’ll stop and they’ll be like, you like fear, fear of not being good enough. And fear, like I said, fear of not being good enough is generic.

And there is nobody alive that doesn’t actually have a wheel of fear, doesn’t have fear. Because again, it’s part of our neurobiology. It’s part of how we’re wired, right?

We don’t just become afraid because we were raised a certain way. Don’t get me wrong. How you were raised does impact what kind of fear you have.

But so does your DNA. It’s been proven now that fears are handed down through our DNA. So when people say, I got to figure out why I’m like this, why am I like this?

Why am I like this? They’re trying to find that one moment, that one secret thing that happened to them that they can say, that’s why I’m like this. Well, you might behave a certain way because of the DNA that’s been handed down to generations.

So you may never find that one thing. So I invite you, I invite folks to not search for the one thing that’s caused them to be like this, but instead find the one thing that will set them free.

I love that. This is kind of like how we say sometimes we’re looking to learn, but sometimes it’s really about unlearning, right? And going a level deeper.

It’s about unwinding, right? It’s about unwinding, unlearning. It’s about actually having the humility to do so, because I think it takes great humility to be willing to say, what if I’m wrong about this?

What if I really don’t know this? What if I’m only using fear as a way to keep myself from avoiding taking action? What if I’m using fear?

What if I’m using procrastination to beat myself up so I don’t have the energy or the fortitude or the willingness or the grace or the heart to keep going for my dream? So we use fear. Fear creates that procrastination, beating yourself up, et cetera.

But then we use the same thing that fear gifts us with is a thing we use to let fear win. So I always say there’s never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever a reason to beat yourself up or another human being. You just don’t get to do that.

No. It’s the number one tool fear uses. I would say it’s the gas and the oil in the wheel of fear, because when we beat ourselves up, we’re actually participating in the demise and breaking apart of our connection to living the life our soul intended.

And that’s how we’re contributing. That’s how we’re participating. So we can change that any moment.

Just like you said, enough is beating yourself up. Just even realizing it’s a choice, I knew blew my mind. For most of my life, I didn’t think it was a choice.

I just thought that’s the way it was and that’s who I was. And I thought I was on my bad decisions. I thought I couldn’t get beyond my bad decisions.

I really thought that my past, I had to carry with me for the rest of my life. And when I started understanding how our neurobiology works and how fear works, I was able to put down those things. I was able to put down my past and actually create a new future for myself.

Powerful, powerful words, Rhonda. But do you think there are fears that are healthy for us by chance?

Well, there’s two things. One is we’re talking about a difference between emotional fears and instinct fears, physical fears. So instinct, our desire to survive physically, I don’t particularly like heights.

I’m not going like, I was in Norway recently and they have this rock that sticks out 20, 30 feet and go walk out on the rock and take an amazing picture. I’m like, no, thank you. I know that would be really cool and I’d be really happy if I did it, but no.

So we have physical fears and those are instincts. Those are physical survival. Yeah, those are awesome as long as they don’t prohibit you from living and taking action in the way you’d like, because there are ways to obviously minimize those.

And most of us though, like my fear of heights, I don’t have to be around heights. I don’t get activated all the time with my fear of heights. I don’t live on the 85th floor.

Yet what my work is, is the emotional fears that impact us every single day. The fear of being rejected, the fear of failure, the fear of loss, the fear of being judged. So these fears are a constant in our life.

So yes, we want our instincts. We want our ability to survive. The challenge is, is that our body and brain don’t know the difference between physical fears and emotional fears.

So the response is the same. So when I’m on the top of a 85th building or in Norway, you know, like go on the 20 feet, right? And I’m like, right, that’s a physical fear for my literal life.

And yet I can put myself in fear of rejection, fear of failure, fear of loss, fear of looking stupid, fear of looking foolish, fear of worthlessness, et cetera. And that same happens. So the way our neurobiology works is it doesn’t know the difference.

We’ve got to train ourselves to know the difference. We’ve got to discern, we’ve got to slice it out so that we can actually see the difference in our response to emotional, what’s going on emotionally with us versus what’s going on physically with us.

Thank you so much. I really love that differentiation. So know the difference when there’s a physical fear, right?

I’m same, I’m the same way. Every time I’m, I’m on a hike, I see snake, I scream and I run. I’m trying to save my own life, right?

Exactly. But if, if that hindered me from ever going on a hike, then that would be more of an emotional fear, right?

Well, it would, it might be a physical fear, but you’ve created such a barrier. Right. So it’s like, okay, I’m afraid of snakes.

Yeah. I don’t want to be around snakes either, but you want to hike. Then you’ve got to do the emotional work to heal and solve and move through the physical fear.

And that’s going to take, that’s going to take your body sensations. That’s going to take your thoughts, you know, your mindset, that’s going to take your heart and that’s going to take your spiritual foundation of what you believe ultimately in order to move you past that. But can it be done?

Absolutely.

Oh, absolutely. I love, I mean, I’ve seen so many snakes on my hike, but I’m still going.

Yay, Lucy.

Awesome. Okay. So for those who have done the work, they’ve done the personal development work, they’re working through their fear.

I’m like, they’re working through their shame, procrastination, all those things that you talked about earlier. Right. And they feel like they’re finally living that fearless life.

But then, but then their boss, their partner, someone else, their friend is living with fear and constantly nagging and telling them, you know, what’s scary. Well, obviously they’re with good intention. They want to protect you, but it happens.

And that is something we don’t want. So how do you go about dealing with that situation?

Well, that’s, that’s the whole reason, you know, I teach fearless conversations or I have a chapter in fearless living called fear junkies and fear busters, right? Because most fear junkies, like you said, they’re doing it with the best of intentions. It’s not like they’re trying to hurt or harm you.

There are some fear junkies that are by the way, but most don’t. So you get to learn something called boundaries. You get to learn something called communication skills.

So most of us, instead of learning the skills that are necessary in order to stand for ourselves and create a sovereignty within ourselves, we get mad at the people who aren’t doing what we think they should do. Right? So why are you afraid of that?

Stop being afraid. It’s like, well, but they’re afraid. So yelling at them is not really helpful.

So as we grow as individuals, as we build our compassion, as we build our empathy, as we build our ability to be honest and build our own personal responsibility and create a sense of sovereignty, we then learn the difference between where I put my hand on my shoulder for a reason. I know I had a therapist once that really brought this home, and this is how she did it with me. She goes, Rhonda, you end here.

And when she put her hand on her shoulder and rubbed it, I was like, what? She goes, you end here. This is where you end.

And that other person is here. And of course, I logically knew that. I mean, I understood what she was saying, but just having that visual reminder that I end here and they start there and they’re fully responsible for their life and I’m fully responsible for my life and how we build relationship and learning the skills in order to connect and communicate.

Because I always say it’s either perfection or connection, right? So if you want to connect, you can’t worry about perfection. You got to choose connection.

So are you willing to learn the communication skills necessary? And are you willing to build the level of compassion and humility that you need in order to see they’re right? The person who’s cutting you off is not even, that’s not even, no, it’s you.

It’s irrelevant. Your spouse who’s in a bad mood, isn’t thinking most likely about ruining your day. They’re just in their own world and you’re being impacted by it.

Well, you can decide what to do. You have a choice then. But most of us have gotten into a routine with our spouses, our mates, our coworkers, et cetera, that keeps us stuck in the wheel.

I’ll give you a quick personal, a quick example. I had a client who had a boss just like that, a boss who basically put everybody down. Okay.

And she came to me and said, I have this boss of mine. And I’m like, okay, let’s do it. And she goes, I just got to quit.

I go, well, you can quit or because you’re going to have to deal with this. Like this person’s in here in your life, as we know, is your greatest teacher. And they’re giving you a advanced teaching on boundaries and speaking up.

And you can either learn it from this person, or you’re going to go to another job or another relationship is going to happen all over again. So your choice, you want to do it here with me or you want to move on? She’s like, okay, I’ll do it.

Right? So she started saying things like, please don’t talk to me that way. That’s not okay with me.

Right? She started standing for what is okay with her or not. Well, what happened?

Because she never got angry. She never, you quit talking to me like that. She just was, Hey, not okay with me.

That’s not okay with me. And she would leave the, leave the area. She was wanting to leave now, I’m going to go to the other room, because this is not okay.

And again, she did that for a little bit of time. And eventually, it doesn’t when people are abusive, it takes the fun out of it when you don’t react. And so what ended up happening is he ended up never, he didn’t talk to her at all like that anymore.

And she ended up working for him for a while. And when she left, he said, you always have a job here. Right?

Because she was not willing to believe that he had more rights than she did. Right? She had equal right.

And she has a right to sovereignty. She has a right to, you know, her own space. So most of us, and I was raised this way, too, is being I’m from Minnesota, Minnesota, nice, you know, I was raised be nice.

So me starting to speak up when I first started, I literally would shake, I would literally go numb, I would literally freeze. And some of my most proud moments in my life, if I look back on it, are when I spoke up, even when I was like, and I teach my clients did my coaches to do this, I you know, I want to say something to somebody that was really hard. And I was shaking.

I said, I’m about to I’m going to say something right now. And I’m going to say it really bad and probably really poorly. But just listen to me.

I’m just really trying to just please listen to my attention. And I was crying the whole time. And I’m just literally like this, like, but I what I call that as a prep sentence.

So I prepped him for what was about to happen. And what we do is we don’t normally prep our partners prep our body like this is, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m a little upset right now. So my voice may raise or I’m a little right, we’re going to prep them.

And then what that does is when we prep them, is we look like we’re in control of our being, they’re not afraid that we’re going to attack or what’s going to happen, you are a quantity, you know, yourself, again, you have sovereignty. So these are some of the skills, communication skills I teach inside fearless living, because without them, you really have a very difficult time to be fearless in the world, because the world is filled with people.

I love it so much. And I love it so much that you said it is a skill. Living is a skill.

It’s not something someone else is born with, right? We hear this as someone else has it all someone else has the confidence and I don’t know it’s not it’s so not true. Confidence is a learned skill, everything you want right to promote yourself to to whatever you think is not possible.

It’s a skill and someone else has crossed that line and learned it and mastered it.

So that’s right. Well, and people that are confident, lose their confidence. Confidence is a skill that you must keep up, right?

So I had, I’ve had so many, I was at a book signing, and one of my book signings and a guy 63 came there and he goes, Oh, I saw that you were doing books today. And I was just gonna comment. I mean, literally, he came here, he says I just came to tell you, I’m fearless.

And I’m like, Okay, I said, Great. Awesome. Yeah.

Yeah. For you. Can I give you a little test?

He’s like, Yes, go ahead. Give me a text. And I said, Okay, so can you say I love you first?

Can you forgive? Have you been able to say you’re wrong? Have you healed all your past damages, your past hurts your past pains with another human being that you inflicted?

I mean, he and I’m saying all these things, right? And he’s just like, because most people, like you’re saying, think of fearless as I can jump out of a plane, and I can tell you what to do. And, okay, that’s one type of fearless.

But the real fearless that what I consider the true fearless, is being able to know what you think, to be in charge of how you respond to the world, and be able to live the life your soul intended. And that takes a whole bunch of skills. Not just good luck.

So good. And, you know, as the saying goes, new level, new devil, right?

right, right.

Yeah, yeah. Well, you’re right. Because I like to think think of a spiral.

And again, that’s a it’s not quite a spiral, but think of a spiral. And we’ll just use myself as an example, I had to forgive my father, as most of us do at some time, I have to give to my father. And I thought I forgave my father, you know, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, right?

And as I up another level, all of a sudden, my dad’s there again. And I’m like, Oh, my God, I thought, I thought I forgave you, right? Well, yes, I forgave him to the capacity that I had owned myself that I was aware of, that I had access to.

But the more that I become aware, the more that I grow, the more that I occupy myself from my bones to my skin, the more I am me, then I see other aspects, oh, my and other memories pop up. And it’s like, oh, here you are, again, ah, more work to do. It is not what most of my clients will be like, well, it didn’t work last time.

I go, No, no, it worked. You wouldn’t be here having this moment if you didn’t work last time. So this is a sign that you’re actually growing and shifting and changing.

So yeah, we all have pathways that we will revisit throughout our lives. That is part of our growth pattern. And lucky us, and yours might be money or love or, you know, relationships, right?

So it’s going to be a reoccurring theme in your life. And that’s not to, you know, disappoint you or frustrate you. It’s that that is your greatest growth and your greatest gift and part of your destiny.

So much wisdom there. Thank you so much for sharing Rhonda, what is a favorite quote that you go by in life?

There is nothing wrong with you. It’s just fear. There’s nothing wrong with you.

It’s just fear.

I’m gonna let that sink in for a while, everyone. And if you’ve been as inspired as I am from listening to Rhonda, do follow her connect with her and check her out at

fearless living.org fearlessliving.org.

And if you want to go get a free little gift from me, go to fearlessliving.org forward slash risk RISK. If you procrastinate, if you want to take more risk, go grab grab that course because that is a cure procrastination course. So again, fearlessliving.org forward slash risk RISK.

Beautiful. Thank you.

You’re welcome.

Thank you. Be fearless.

If you are looking for some answers and seeking clarity, this episode is for you on how to find clarity in life.  In this episode Lucy is sharing her top 5 strategies to help you find clarity whenever you need to in life:

1. Self awareness through Self-Reflection

2. Clarify Your Values

3. Set Intentions

4. Declutter Your Mind and Environment

5. Take Action

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If you are looking for some answers and seeking clarity, this episode is for you. Finding clarity in life can feel overwhelming when you are unsure of your path ahead. But with some intentional practices, you can absolutely gain focus and direction, fast. So today I’m sharing my top 5 strategies to help you find clarity whenever you need to in life:

1. Self awareness through Self-Reflection

Remember that anytime you need answers, always remember that everything starts with self awareness. Spend time to assess your life. Whether that’s through journaling, meditating, or simply thinking about your current state can bring to light what’s working and what isn’t working. 

Ask yourself these 3 important questions:

• What truly matters to me?
• What do I enjoy doing most?
• What am I avoiding, and why?

Feel free to hit the pause button now to answer these 3 important questions and again they are: 

• What truly matters to me?
• What do I enjoy doing most?
• What am I avoiding, and why?

2. Clarify Your Values

Understand your core values. What principles guide your decisions and behavior? Knowing your values helps prioritize what to focus on and leads to decisions aligned with who you are. 

For example, for me, my priority is always family first. Knowing this priority, it is much faster for me to make decisions based on whether or not I will be able to attend to my family’s plans. 

Another example is one of my top values is making ethical decisions. So it is very clear to me that I will work with ethical companies and people who also are doing ethical work, I only work with those who are kind to others and like me want to contribute to better humanity. 

So if you have trouble seeing clarity in your next steps, make sure you get clear on your own values first. 

Make a list, what do you value the most in life? 

3. Set Intentions

Instead of just focusing on long-term goals, set clear intentions for how you want to live daily. These intentions could be around your well-being, relationships, work, or personal growth.

We can even take as many breaks throughout the day, each day, to reset our intentions. Anytime you feel the need, simply close your eyes for a minute, do one to two minutes of deep breathing, and say to yourself, when I open my eyes, my new intention is to ___________. 

An example could be if you are stressing about going into a meeting. You can shift your focus, by closing your eyes for a minute to breathe deeply and say: When I open my eyes, my new intention is to focus on how far I’ve come, how much I’ve already accomplished and just walk into the meeting room with confidence. 

Another example could be if you are stressing about going to a networking event full of strangers, instead of focusing on how introverted you are you can shift your focus, by closing your eyes for a minute to breathe deeply and say: When I open my eyes, my new intention is to focus meeting each person with authenticity and providing them value in any way possible. 

You see what we focus on grows, so instead of thinking about your fears and thinking about how you are lacking clarity or your next move, reset your intention as many times as possible to get focused on what really matters. 

4. Declutter Your Mind and Environment

A cluttered space can reflect a cluttered mind. Simplify your surroundings to remove distractions. Many times, when we remove junk from our physical environment we start to get clarity in our mind. So cleaning up your desk, a corner in your room or changing up your wall art, all these can possibly help you hit your next light bulb. 

Declutter your mind by letting go of unproductive thoughts and activities that don’t serve your purpose. Instead of drowning in your to do list, I often ask my clients to make a “Let Go List” or “Not To Do” List. What thoughts will you stop thinking about, what are you doing that you don’t actually want to do? List them down and watch how they can change your life. 

5. Take Action

Clarity comes after action, not before. Even small steps toward your goals or interests can provide insights into what feels right and help you refine your direction. Many times we wait for clarity until we take action, but that wait can be forever! And sometimes when we take action, we realize it isn’t what we thought it to be, and that’s ok too, it is still better than inaction and that new found realization becomes your true clarity. 

Extra Credit Points: 

Embrace Uncertainty

Accept that you won’t have all the answers immediately. The process of finding clarity is gradual, and sometimes not knowing is part of the journey.

Seek Guidance

Talk with mentors and coaches who can offer a new perspective. Sometimes we’re too close to our own challenges to see clearly and although our friends mean well for use, they might lack the neutral outsider point of view you need to make an unbiased decision.

Stay Present

Focus on the present moment instead of getting lost in future worries or past regrets. Mindfulness can help you connect with what’s important to you right now and allow clarity to emerge naturally.

Visualize Your Ideal Life

Create a vision of what your ideal life looks like, including how you want to feel, the work you want to do, and the relationships you want to have. This visualization can act as a guide when making decisions.

By practicing these steps, you can gradually refine what’s meaningful to you, allowing clarity to unfold. 

Does any of this resonate with your current journey? Send me a DM and let me know. 

With guest Disability Advocate Tiffany Yu we are here to talk about Smashing Stereotypes & Forging Change.

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At age nine, Tiffany Yu became disabled in a car accident that also resulted in the death of her father and left her with PTSD.

Now Tiffany Yu, founder and CEO of Diversability is an award-winning social impact entrepreneur, disability advocate, and content creator. She is also an in-demand speaker, podcast host, 3 times TEDx speaker and her work and story have been featured in tons of top publications such as The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, Forbes, USA Today, and author of book The Anti-Ableist Manifesto. 

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FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Hello, hello, beautiful souls, this episode is for you, if you want a dose of inspiration to smashing stereotypes and forging change, not only in your life and business, but also for the greater community. And for that, I have my special guest, Tiffany Yu, founder and CEO of Diversibility, who is an award winning social impact entrepreneur, disability advocate and content creator. She is also an in-demand speaker, podcast host, three times TEDx speaker and her work and story have been featured in top publications, such as the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, Forbes, USA Today.

And we would be here for a long time if I had to list out all of her amazingness. So let’s cut it short. She is the bestselling author of her new book, the Anti-Ableist Manifesto.

Welcome to the show, Tiffany.

Thanks so much for having me. Not a bestseller yet, but we can manifest it.

Well, by the time this episode air, it will happen. I know it. I love your book.

Love your story. A quick preview. At age nine, Tiffany, you became disabled in a car accident that also resulted in the death of your father and left you with PTSD.

Now let’s hear your side of the story.

Yeah, so that’s the one sentence version of it. If you want the 10 minute version of it, I have a TEDx talk called The Power of Exclusion. But as you mentioned, at the age of nine, I was in this car accident.

I acquired a handful of injuries, including permanently paralyzing one of my arms, breaking a couple bones in one of my legs that would leave me in a wheelchair as a temporary wheelchair user for about four months. And then much later being diagnosed with a mental health disability, PTSD, as you also mentioned. And one of the things I want to highlight is that we don’t owe anyone these disability origin stories.

But part of why I share mine is that I think it provides or I want it to provide context. So I’m coming into this conversation as someone who acquired my disability at a young age. I wasn’t born with it.

In addition to that, I acquired my disability as a result of a tragic accident where someone else passed away. So there are multiple layers of grief in there. But there’s a little bit of nuance in terms of, yes, the car accident was tragic.

But my life and existence as a disabled person is not. And how can we separate that? Yes, there are some sad parts about that story.

But my current existence isn’t sad. And that’s part of the unlearning that I’m trying to get people to do through this book, through the social media series, through our work at Diversibility. Unlearning ableism and unlearning these harmful thoughts about the disability community.

I can’t even imagine what you have gone through. But I 100% believe that all hindrances in life eventually become our assets. Would you agree with me?

You know, I agree with it now, 27 years after the accident. But in a lot of ways, I still wish that what happened to 9-year-old Tiffany didn’t. Sometimes when I watch old videos of myself, even that 2018 TEDx talk that I mentioned, I like start crying.

Because I don’t want kids to go through things that make them not get to celebrate the fullness of being a child and that childhood innocence. And at the same time, I also understand there are a lot of hard things, and formally they’re called adverse childhood experiences, that do happen to kids. But how can we lessen them?

Or how can we start the healing process sooner? But in a lot of ways, I guess what I am most grateful for is that I discovered and connected with the disability community. And that I am a part of this beautiful community for the last almost 30 years.

So essentially, I like to tell people that some of us within the disability community have what are called two disability origin stories. So I shared the first about the car accident. That’s the first origin.

But then there’s a second origin, which is the turning point or the moment or a long period or a phase or chapter, when a disabled person decides to take pride, ownership, identity, even at a baseline level, just acceptance of a disability identity. And I will share that maybe not a lot of disabled people will get to that second origin story. But I think for me, yes, the hard thing was there.

But I’m so grateful I got to that second story, which happened about 15 years ago with the beginnings with the creation of Diversibility and this disability community. And that I think I’m more grateful for. But yes, that that first that first story, and I think the experiences that happened up until that second story became the fuel for my fire, and why I wanted to dedicate my life to building communities everywhere I went.

Beautifully said.

And if you’re new to disability, we will talk about a little bit more about that later on in our conversation. But if you are, you know, not relating to disability, I want you to think about any hardship. This could, you know, mean childhood trauma in other ways, or just hardship along your life that’s hindering you from living the life that you deserve.

So Tiffany, what stereotypes did you have to smash along the way of your personal development?

Yeah, and I know your audience is, you know, focused on growth. So I want to put a little asterisk in that when Lucy and I first met, we were at a conference. And my company Diversibility was actually in the running to win $60,000 in the small business promotion contest thing.

And I was literally just going around and telling everyone to scan this QR code and vote. So anyway, so I just wanted to mention that in case we wanted to talk about that part of growing and kind of building your business too. But I think the stereotypes I had to overcome were around thinking that as a disabled person, I wasn’t going to amount to much.

And as an Asian woman, that my voice and story didn’t matter. And I think that being at this trifecta of being Asian and being a woman and being disabled, there are so many stereotypes that I think we’re combating all the time. And I will say that, interestingly enough, even though my work is so disability centered, most of the positive feedback I get and support is actually from Asian women who are really proud to see someone standing in their truth or in their purpose, going out and using their voice, trying to advocate to make this world a little bit better for all of us.

So you talked about the second half, right, where you get to the better end. What kind of mindset shifts did you need to make in order to forge changes in your own life?

Ooh, such a good question. This is why coaches are good podcast hosts, because you ask the best questions. You know, I will say that I, I guess I will first preface by saying I read this amazing book called Daring Greatly in 2016 by Brene Brown.

And after that point in time, I really decided that I wanted to lead with vulnerability. And I want to, I don’t know if I’ve necessarily overcome the hurdles. I still have a very loud inner critic.

I’ve actually given them a whole personality and a name, and sometimes they show up in full force. But one thing I’ve had to remind myself, and I guess what keeps me going, is that my mission is bigger than me. So one small example I can share is that I really, I really don’t like the sound of my voice.

And I’ve been on, I do a lot of speaking engagements for a living. I was a podcast host. I’ve been a guest on a lot of podcasts.

I make a lot of video content. And I hate going back and re-watching or re-listening to it. But I remember, I’m on your podcast.

I’m reaching your audiences now. The message is bigger than how self-conscious I feel about the way I’m speaking.

I can relate so much to what you just said, Tiffany. Because even as, you know, this will be podcast episode number 243, I still hate my voice. Like, when I listen to it, I’m like, I wish I sound better, right?

But that can’t stop us from doing what we love. And that is to make someone else stay better. That is to add value to someone else’s life.

And I think if we come from a place of service, that makes a world of difference. Instead of focusing on ourselves, right? Like, I lack.

I’m not good enough. Instead of what we are able to do.

I will say something. So, Diversibility is turning 15 this year. Very exciting.

Someone made a joke that I started it when I was in kindergarten. But we’ll do another episode on skincare secrets later. But something I did have to learn early on in my journey is, I did feel like I was pouring from an empty cup for a long period of time.

And actually, maybe one learning I’ve had is like, being able to better set boundaries around my time, especially if we are in service to others, is knowing like, okay, in order for us to be in service to others, I need to make sure my own cup is overflowing. I need to make sure I’m making time and harmony and balance for rest. That is something that I’ve definitely prioritized in these last couple of years.

But yeah, the message is bigger than we are. And do what we need to do to take care of ourselves too.

And coming back to what you said earlier, Tiffany, we met in person for the first time at this conference. And she is just so powerful. I see her going around with this QR code asking people to vote for her.

I’m like, yes, I voted for you. And everyone was like, yes, yes, we voted. Yes, done.

Like, you were fearless. And I love that. And when I think of the word disability now, it just equates to power to me because of you.

And I know it took you a long time to get there. Because like in your book, you talked about once the accident happened to you, you didn’t even tell any of your friends that your father passed away for how many years? For 12 years.

And just like so many things happened to us that we hide to ourselves. And that creates the inner stress, right? The disorder, the PTSD.

And that happens to a lot of us on different levels with different stories that we tell ourselves, whether that’s relationship, work, personal. It could be anything, right? It’s different for every human being.

But as long as you are a human being, all of us have our stories. It’s about what we do with your story. And I love what you did with your story.

What mindset shift for you it was to open up and make that mindset shift?

I think it was realizing like I actually still remember the date that I shared the story of the car accident publicly for the first time. And I know you probably read this in the intro, but it was October 22, 2009. The car accident was in 1997.

And when I shared that story, I cried. But what I realized afterward, after sharing it, was that people saw themselves in my story. And I think one of the things I had to learn about sharing stories was why am I telling this story, right?

So I know when we opened up this conversation, I’m sharing this story to provide context. Not only is it context around who I am, but why I care so much about my work. And also what unique disability perspective I’m bringing into the community that I’m a part of as well.

And all of the intersections as well. So the mindset shift I think was, and I don’t want to be, I think one of the things I’ve had to unlearn is putting so much of my self-worth on other people’s opinions of me. But I will say that some of the positive feedback and mirroring that I received from other people who saw themselves in my story and then felt comfortable starting to share more of theirs.

And I actually loved, Lucy, that you shared that you see disability as power because you met me. You know, and you saw me fearlessly going around with this QR code. And I think even you naming that shift is part of the shift that I’m hoping to make.

So yeah, in the beginning, and I don’t know if it was a mindset shift per say. In a lot of ways, I feel like I came into all of this work accidentally. So when I started Diversibility, I would not have self-identified as a disability advocate.

I saw myself as someone who so desperately wanted and needed a community to not feel so isolated and alone in this experience. Maybe the mindset shift was a breaking point of saying, I feel so alone and screaming out into the void. I mean, now we have so many ways to connect with people.

But back in 2009, it was, this is something I know I need. Is anyone else there who might need this as well? And I actually think that was the beginning.

I didn’t have the language for it of finding that product market fit per se. And I would always tell myself, hey, if no one showed up to our events or wanted to join or stop joining our community, then we have served our purpose, right? I don’t want to just create something that exists out there that, as you said, is not in service to other people.

So yeah, I guess I would call it an accidental mindset shift then.

I love it. Two things I love about what you just said, because a lot of things happen by accident. I would have never knew I wanted to be a podcast host, right?

Before starting my podcast, I didn’t even listen to podcasts. And then my business coach put me on my first interview, guesting on another podcast, and I just absolutely fell in love. And it just happened by accident.

So as long as you’re moving forward, you never know what opportunities arise, right? You never know. But none of it would happen if you’re sitting at home and being indecisive and taking inaction, right?

So there’s no such thing as procrastination. It’s just inaction. And success loves action and speedy action.

And I love how you just pointed out we never know where life takes us. But as long as we’re moving forward, it’s going to take us there. And beautiful opportunities arise from it just could arise from anywhere, right?

And the second thing I really loved about what you said is the keyword unlearn. I am an incessant learner myself. I’m always reading.

I love learning. But I think the biggest breakthroughs in life for me came from unlearning certain things, right? I’m sure we’ve been there.

And as entrepreneurs, there’s always burnout times, burnout stories with every entrepreneur at one point. But how do we unlearn what we thought was what we wanted and really to let go? To live the freedom that we chose, that life we truly want to design for ourselves?

Yeah, I talk a lot. I mean, it’s also unlearning other people’s imposed definitions of success on us. I talk a lot about, you know, I mentioned unlearning ableism, unlearning shame.

There are so many things that are ingrained in us from an early age. And I also have compassion for that little one, for learning those things that may be protected, they thought would protect them for a period of time. But yeah, I love that you mentioned both making space for learning and unlearning.

Absolutely. What else did you unlearn through the process of starting a company? Because that wasn’t your major, right?

That’s not where you started out. You and I both started out in the finance world. How did you get into business?

And how did you unlearn what was different than what you expected?

Oh, so I’ll tie it back to where Lucy and I met, which is we met at this conference called Your First Million Live. It was hosted by this incredible venture capitalist author, many hyphens named Arlan Hamilton. And I actually think that the biggest thing I had to unlearn was that I would call myself a multi-hyphenate.

I’ve got, you know, before we started recording, we’re talking about just lots, lots of good things going on. I’ve got a book coming out or running this business. I create content on social media and doing speaking engagements.

There’s a lot, right? And I remember thinking that I needed to generate all of my income from one place, this business that I was starting, for it to be successful. And then as we realized, hey, within this company, we need to diversify our streams of revenue.

Like, it’s not just our memberships in our community, but what about events? What about merch? It made me think about Tiffany’s own personal income statement, I guess, and all of the different ways that I could generate income.

And the reason why I brought up Arlen was early on, I attended like a one-hour session that she had hosted about all of her different streams of income. And she made a list of all the places, speaking, I don’t know, but there were like eight of them. And then she had a list right next to it, which was where all of that money gets allocated, right?

So maybe you are, so for example, for me, the majority of the money that we make at Diversibility goes to paying our team members and paying disabled speakers that we hire and contributors and other things like that. And then if I, you know, I remember once I started creating content and that started bringing in some brand partnerships, I said, oh, the money I make from this, I want it to go towards starting like a scholarship or an endowment fund at my university to support disabled students and disability initiatives. And so like, you have your list of eight or however many it has, and then you have another list that shares where that money goes.

And then maybe, you know, and don’t forget, you have the money for rent and food, you know, parking and we’re in LA and other things like that. But I think when she broke it down like that, it made me realize, oh, if what I’m using, if the money I’m using to pay my rent is not coming from money that we’re making at Diversibility, maybe it’s coming from my speaking income. That’s okay, right?

It doesn’t have to be all one thing. So I will say, you know, Diversibility, we’re hybrid, we’ve got for-profit and nonprofit. And at the same time, I spend a lot of time on it.

And I love it, which is why I keep doing it. But it isn’t necessarily what is contributing the most to my, to my bottom line, to my personal bottom line.

What a great reminder to diversify, right? And really to build that portfolio and think outside the box.

Yeah, that answer was going like a little bit, a little bit in the weeds.

Yeah, but as entrepreneurs, and I think that’s the definition of entrepreneurship is really to have multiple, like, you know, we are, we have all these titles, but yes, we have multiple income streams. And I think that’s what an entrepreneur is. And even if you’re working at a full time job, you can still have a side hustle or you can still have 10 other streams of income.

So think outside the box. I love it. So let’s get into a little bit about ableism, because that is a word I, I’ve been following Tiffany on social for, I think, three, four years.

And I think I did not know about this word until I met you. So let’s start there. What is ableism?

Yeah, so I first want to highlight that ableism is similar to other systems of oppression, words like racism or sexism, which we may have heard of before. Interestingly enough, the word ableism actually only became elevated in consciousness, I think in the 1980s. I did write about the history of it in the book, but it’s been around for a long time.

So the definition of ableism is when we devalue someone based on the way their body and our mind works. A more simplified way could be discrimination on the basis of disability. But the reason why I use the, when we devalue someone based on the way their body and our mind works, it’s asked us to really think about all of the ways that might not be connected to a disability identity where we devalue someone’s body and our mind.

So I think about how sexism and ableism might intersect when we question a woman’s intellect, when we make fun of the way she speaks, when the media dissects her body or like changes her weight. You know, those are examples where we actually see ableism and sexism intersect. But yeah, it’s a newer term, but ableism in terms of devaluing people has been around forever.

But yeah, and so to be anti-ableist, which is part of the title of my book, and probably the social media series that you came across when you started following me, is what are the ways that we don’t do that, that we actually value someone equitably based on how their body and our mind works? This is where accessibility accommodations come in, but I’m going off on my soapbox. So that’s what ableism is.

I love it. And I love how you talked about how words, I always talk about how words are so powerful. And you talked about in your book, ableist words, such as suffering from disability.

We can change that into more empowering words, such as living with disability, right? And I think that is profound mindset shift. Even with anything you are dealing with in life, right?

You’re suffering from an event that happened to you. You are simply living with it. That is the fact.

And when you change your wording around the situation, the outcome and how you feel about it, and the actions you take will be completely different. So it’s really essential for the words that we are using, right? And I know for you, Tiffany, your disability was actually not very apparent, as we can see your beautiful smile here.

But in those difficult times, when you hit a bump in your life, what is a favorite quote that you go by?

This quote is from someone named Francis Weller. And the quote is, The work of the mature person is to carry grief in one hand and gratitude in the other, and to be stretched large by them. How much sorrow can we hold?

That’s how much gratitude we can give.

I love that. I’m big on gratitude. So thank you for sharing.

And where can we find you?

You can find me, the best place is on my website, TiffanyYu.com. That will have links to learn more about the book that Lucy has been referencing, and all of my social links so you can follow and stay connected with me. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Today’s episode is for you if you find yourself struggling to find a balance between being authentically yourself with the responsibilities and the roles we have in society, family, and work.

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There is alot of talk on the topic of you be you and I’m definitely a big advocate for being yourself, I speak often about this, you get to design your life and you get to do whatever you want, you just be you, but I had give some tough love today and to point out there is a difference between being authentically yourself and being selfish. 

Many young people nowadays excuse themselves from responsibilities and simply say “oh I’m just being myself”. Yes it’s your life, you get to decide what you wear, what you eat, where to go, who to be with, these small decisions of your life you can absolutely decide based solely on your own preferences. 

However, for the bigger things, like work, family, or we can even broaden that to for our country, you need to first fulfill your role in it or else it’s selfish. If your role is an employee, you have to fulfill your duties as an employee first. If you are a soldier, you would fight for your country. If your role is a mom, you are responsible to feed your child. Now don’t overthink this, if your child is fed and has basic needs taken care of, you’re doing amazing work, I’m not here to make you think you are bad at what you do, but I’m simply here to remind you that when you attend your responsibilities first before you go create the life you want you will experience alot more freedom and confidence. 

Yes, you have the freedom to embrace who you are and make personal choices, such as how you dress, the hobbies you pursue, or the lifestyle you choose. These aspects of life are personal and can be decided based on your individual preferences. Yes, being true to yourself can contribute significantly to your mental health and personal satisfaction. On the other hand, of course suppressing your true self can lead to stress and dissatisfaction.

But… in a professional setting, fulfilling your duties is a responsibility. While it’s important to bring your authentic self to work and raise your voice during meetings, you still need to meet the responsibilities of your role. This ensures the smooth functioning of the organization or your company. If you are a parent, spouse, or family member, your responsibilities often include caring for and supporting others. Being authentic involves being true to yourself, aligning your actions with your values, and expressing your individuality. But being authentic does not mean neglecting your family duties; rather, it involves finding ways to fulfill them while staying true to your values. If you use being yourself as the excuse to neglect any of your responsibilities, then that is selfish. So please be authentically yourself but don’t be selfish. 

So here are my top 3 tips to balancing between being your authentically self with the responsibilities and roles we have in society, family, and work.

1. Self-Awareness: I’m going to start probably every topic with self-awareness because it is really self-awareness that gets us started on the path we want to go. So if you want to balance your values and your duties of course you must start by understanding your own values, needs, and limits, that is the first step. Knowing when you’re making a choice for personal authenticity and when you’re avoiding responsibility is crucial. So leave time for reflection and journaling, nature walks, any down time to have the opportunities to be more aware of your circumstance. Remember to be open and honest with those around you about your needs and boundaries can help you balance personal authenticity with social roles.
2. Prioritization: Values and priorities go together hand in hand. Sometimes, fulfilling responsibilities might mean temporarily compromising on personal preferences. The key is to find a balance that does not lead to long-term personal dissatisfaction or neglect of duties. Some people think there is not a balance after all, it is simply choosing your priorities. So as long as your priorities are being met, you are in balance. And remember flexibility and adaptability is also essential. This means sometimes prioritizing personal needs and other times prioritizing social responsibilities. But you get to choose what your priorities are in different seasons of your life. 
3. Ethical considerations: I have always felt in balance in life because one of my top priorities is being ethical. When making a decision, I always consider how my actions would impact those around me. Authenticity should not come at the expense of others’ well-being. Just as you seek to be yourself, respect others’ needs and their roles in life and society as well. This is why when you are not being selfish, it creates a more harmonious environment where everyone can thrive together.

So again, being authentically yourself is important, but it must be balanced with fulfilling your roles and responsibilities. This balance ensures personal fulfillment while contributing positively to your family, workplace, and society.

Growing up, I was taught that being proud was a negative thing, that it was selfish and could intimidate others. But now I think pride is not a bad thing. In fact, it’s something we should embrace. Take pride in your authenticity. Being proud of who you are will help you live your life authentically and celebrating what you’ve already accomplished is your key component of confidence.

Cheers to you becoming that next best version of yourself and I’ll see you in the next episode. 

How to say no? How to deal with the guilt and shame you feel about setting boundaries?

How to deal with the push-back behaviors from others after set boundaries?

This episode will answer these questions and much more!

Guest Barb Nangle is a boundaries coach, speaker and the Founder and CEO of Higher Power Coaching and Consulting, LLC and host of the podcast, “Fragmented to Whole: Life Lessons from 12 Step Recovery.” 

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WATCH THE EPISODE

Barb Nangle is a boundaries coach, speaker and the Founder and CEO of Higher Power Coaching and Consulting, LLC and host of the podcast, “Fragmented to Whole: Life Lessons from 12 Step Recovery.”

In 2015 at the age of 52, after decades of therapy and tons of self-help work in a variety of areas, Barb found herself in 12-step recovery. She’s been in two such fellowships since then and has changed deeply and profoundly as a result. As a former addict and people-pleasing rescuer, she empowers people to thrive and take more control over their personal and professional lives by coaching them to build healthy boundaries.

She works with organizations in the helping professions, as well as women entrepreneurs to avoid burnout and reduce turnover. Her specialty is working with professional women who say yes when they really want to say no, and neglect themselves because they’re focused on others.

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Hello, hello, beautiful souls. This episode is for you. If you’re looking to set better boundaries in life, and learn how to say no without feeling guilt.

And for that I have my special expert today, Barb Nangle. She is a boundaries coach, speaker and founder and CEO of higher power coaching and the host of the podcast, fragmented to whole life lessons from 12 step recovery. Welcome to the show, Barb.

Thank you so much, Lucy. It’s really great to meet you. I’ve been excited about this.

Awesome. So let’s, let’s start from the very beginning. Go back to the basics.

What is boundaries to you?

Right. So I think of boundaries as standards that we have for our life, hopefully that we live up to. So they are limits that we impose on ourselves or other people so that we can live in alignment with those standards.

So health is a really good example. Like if health is a value of mine, then I’m going to have boundaries in place, place to support and promote my health. Like, I’m going to set aside time.

So I have time boundaries. I’m going to set aside money to pay for things that support my health, that sort of thing.

Yeah, from your experience, coaching your clients, why are boundaries hard for people to set?

So I think they’re hard for many, many people, but I think they’re especially hard for women because we have been socialized to be caretakers and to be helpful. And it’s almost like an epithet to call a woman selfish. And somehow they’ve internalized from the culture, the idea that setting limits with other people is selfish, that putting yourself first is selfish.

And it’s actually not. That’s why, you know, in the airplane, when you’re flying, they say, Hey, if you’re with a companion and the oxygen mask falls down, you put it on yourself first. What they don’t say is if you’re passed out, you can’t help the other person.

So I’m a fan of people filling their cup such that they pour from the overflow rather than from the cup or from the empty cup as many women try to do. Absolutely.

And I believe many times core boundaries have to do with past experiences or childhood trauma. Would you agree with me?

Absolutely. I mean, I would say, I feel pretty confident in saying a hundred percent of my clients grew up with some kind of family dysfunction, which could mean, you know, intergenerational family dysfunction. It could mean mental health problems, chronic illness, codependence, addiction, other kinds of dysfunction, hyper religiosity, militaristic families, people with, you know, parents with mental illness.

That’s typically where it comes from.

And how do you go about that for people who have these core experiences?

So, because of my podcast, which is geared towards people in 12-step recovery, an enormous proportion of the clientele that I get comes from 12-step recovery. So most people that come to me are at the point where they know they need to do something and they’re probably aware that it has to do with boundaries. So they get like, I’m the one that has to change.

I call them being ripe for change. So I don’t have to convince people that they need to do something and that boundaries are important for them. But the way that I start with all my clients, regardless of where they’re at in their journey of boundary setting, is I have them determine their top five values.

And many of them don’t really know what matters to them because they’ve been such chameleons or people pleasers or such approval seekers that they’ve just said yes to everybody around them and not really given much account of what they want, like, need, and prefer, and what’s okay and not okay. So by having them start with their top five values, they’re starting to put the focus on themselves, which is absolutely key. And then I have them use those as guideposts.

So I mentioned health before, right? So if they say health is my boundary, excuse me, health is my value, then we go about the work of helping them to figure out what are the boundaries that I need in place to support and promote my health.

Let’s go back a little bit. You mentioned the 12 steps recovery. Let’s talk a little bit more about that.

What is the 12-step recovery for those who’s never heard the term?

Okay. I’m glad you asked that question. So most people have probably heard of Alcoholics Anonymous.

It is a 12-step recovery program for people who are addicted to alcohol and want to quit. It was created in the 1930s, and it was the first time in human history that droves of people got sober and stayed sober and really were able to maintain their lives without alcohol. And since then, I think there’s something like 250 12-step programs.

The origin is that the 12 steps actually came from something called the Oxford Movement, which was a Christian movement. So there are spiritual roots. It’s not a Christian program.

It’s not a religious program. They were turned into 12 steps. It is a spiritual program, and the idea is that you need some kind of a power greater than yourself.

Some people call that God. Some people call it nature. Some people think, oh, it’s the power of the group that is greater than me.

So you don’t have to believe in God to participate, but there are 12 methodical steps that you go through, regardless of which program you’re in, that actually allow you to get and stay, like if you’re an alcohol program, for example, get sober and stay sober.

And what does the 12-step recovery look like?

So in most programs, you find a sponsor, which is someone who has been in the program longer than you and usually has completed all 12 steps, but at least has been several steps ahead of you. And different programs have different methods of working the steps. So for example, in AA, Alcoholics Anonymous, their main piece of literature, everybody calls it the big book.

The title is actually Alcoholics Anonymous, and it’s written in the text of there, but over time, people have come up with worksheets based on that. I happen to be in ACA, which is Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families. That’s actually a trauma recovery program where you reparent yourself and you use the 12 steps to recover.

In that program, there’s a 12-step workbook. It’s about that thick, and it has just an enormous amount of questions to help you understand yourself. And then these inventory sheets, I’m also in Overeaters Anonymous.

I’m down over 100 pounds from my top weight. I’ve been at my goal weight for six and a half years. And in that program, I worked with a sponsor who came up, she has a set of questions she’s been using.

She came up with them over years based on AA literature, OA literature, different workbooks and stuff. And so most programs, you work one-on-one with someone who has you sort of go through each one of the steps in whatever fashion makes sense for that program. In the ACA program, it’s a little bit different because you don’t just do the steps.

You also engage in reparenting. Many people, because it’s a trauma recovery program, also go to therapy for trauma recovery. There’s often a lot of somatic healing, but that stuff happens outside of the 12-step program.

It doesn’t actually happen. And then the other thing that people do is they go to meetings, typically weekly. They’re support group meetings.

And so I go to a weekly ACA meeting. I go to a weekly OA meeting. I used to, in my early days, I went to much more frequently because I really needed it.

But now I kind of keep my toes in the program, not just through my meetings, but I’m a sponsor and I have a sponsor. So I do weekly or sometimes bi-weekly work with people in recovery. And it really actually strengthens my recovery.

So it’s like, for people in the business world, it’s like a mentoring model, but it’s a little bit more structured than mentoring typically is in the business world.

Wow. Amazing. Let’s tie back to boundaries.

So how does the 12-step recovery help your clients with setting better boundaries?

So I don’t have anything to do with the 12 steps in my business. It’s actually not okay to do that because the 12 steps are a free program. So I couldn’t take someone through the 12 steps.

So I personally learned to build boundaries in 12-step recovery, but I did it on this meandering haphazard path. It’s not like the steps were constructed to teach me boundaries. It just happens to be one of the things that I learned because I think of it as my core wound is codependence.

And in case people don’t know what that is, a person who is codependent is typically focused on everything outside themselves. What does he want? What does she want?

What do they want? What does the situation need? What does the organization need?

They seek other people’s approval. They often don’t feel okay in themselves unless other people around them are okay, especially unless those people are okay with them. Like, I need you to be okay with me so that I can be okay.

A classic codependent is in a relationship with an addict or an alcoholic, but that’s not always the case. So what happened for me, Lucy, was after two to three years in recovery and really establishing healthy boundaries and being like, wow, I can’t believe how different my life is, I started reading about boundaries. And while I was doing it, I took notes and I would draw these images that visually depicted what I was understanding about boundaries.

Those drawings turned into handouts, which turned into a workbook, which is the spine of my boundaries coaching program. So I came up with an accelerated method for people to be able to build healthy boundaries so they don’t have to do it on this meandering haphazard path the way I did. So I would say that my experience came from the 12 steps of recovery, but my knowledge came from books and sort of retroactively understanding what happened to me.

And then I’ve created a whole curriculum around how to do that. So I hope that answers your question.

Wow. Amazing. But I think most of the time, many times we see women, especially when they are codependent, when they do care so much about others, like you talked about around them.

So if they say no, they set the boundaries, they say no, they’re going to feel the guilt and the shame. How do we get rid of that?

Right. So it doesn’t happen overnight, but this is where the values come in. Because when you start making decisions and setting limits with people based on what matters to you, first of all, by making, by living your life in alignment with your values, you’re getting into integrity with yourself.

Integrity is another word for wholeness. And so when you feel whole, it’s hard to be shaken. This is one of the reasons why my podcast is called fragmented to whole, because before recovery, I had this notion that I was a bunch of fragmented pieces floating around in space.

Recovery helped me to integrate those into one coherent whole. So I can no longer be shattered by things that happened to me. I can be rocked by them, but I can’t be shattered by them because I’m whole.

So when we start by deciding what our values are, and we start doing more things to live in alignment with them, and we start setting limits with other people based on our values, we start to feel pretty good about that. Like I’m doing this for my health, for example, since I used health as an example. So let’s say, you know, I mentioned I’m a compulsive overeater.

So say somebody says to me, let’s go to this brunch buffet on Sunday. I’m going to decline. Number one, buffets don’t work for me.

Number two, I eat three meals and two snacks a day approximately the same time. 11 o’clock is not one of those times. And number three, I really try to do my socializing outside of meals with people.

It doesn’t mean I never do, but that’s, I’m like, let’s go for a walk or have coffee. So if I’m going to decline that invitation and they want to judge me because I’m taking care of myself, that’s a lot easier for me to tolerate now that I’m taking care of myself and I get the reinforcement of being taken care of. Because the part about boundaries that people typically don’t think about is the reward, the reward part of setting boundaries.

So if you continue to take care of your health, you’re going to be healthy and health is its own reward. And so in the beginning, it’s harder, but as time goes on, it gets easier. And I’m glad that you mentioned the feelings of guilt and shame, because feelings are the main reason people either don’t set boundaries or they cave once they set boundaries because they cannot handle their feelings.

So I do a lot of feelings work with my clients. And I will say in turn, and speaking of boundaries, an indication often that it’s time to either set or shore up a boundary is if you feel resentful. So I was a giver.

I was a volunteer aholic before I got into recovery. And I actually give more service to my community now that I’m in recovery in terms of hours per week than I ever did as a volunteer aholic, but it’s completely different. I’m never resentful.

Number one, I do it strategically, not at the drop of a hat. Number two, I do it by choice, not compulsion or a feeling of obligation. And number three, I do it only after filling my own cup.

First, I pour from the overflow rather than trying to pour from an empty cup. So I don’t ever get resentful. I used to get resentful and be like, I can’t believe she just asked me for the 50th time to volunteer for that blah, blah, blah.

Well, you know why she asked me 50 times, Lucy? Because I said yes, 49 times. But wanting to be helpful does not explain where we get to the point where we’re resentful.

What that’s about is some kind of focus outside yourself, perhaps approval seeking, really caring what other people think of you. I didn’t know that was going on for me. That was a huge revelation, one of many, many, many revelations in my 12-step recovery.

And that’s despite the fact that I was in therapy for 37 years, not continuously, but almost, and read all the self-help books and all the personal development programs. And I was a very introspective person, but there was so much I didn’t know that the 12 steps revealed to me, like that I was a people pleaser and a rescuer and approval seeker.

I resonate a lot with what you just said. I love it. I’m volunteering this weekend and I love what you said.

I don’t need the hours. I just love helping. It comes from within instead of, oh, you need the hours.

You need to be there. You need to, the need to, instead of I get to, right?

I love that. That’s what I say. I use that exact phrase from my clients all the time.

They say, I have to do this. I should do this. I need this.

I’m like, no, no, no, no. Get to, because get to is about choice and have to and should to and need to is almost like someone else is forcing it on you, or it feels like you’re compelled and you actually have choices and boundaries are actually about making choices and deciding what are the choices I want to make. And it’s astonishing how much control you have over your life that you don’t even know that you have if you have poor boundaries.

I was astonished. I felt like a strong, independent woman of agency before I got into recovery. And in some ways I was, but I had no idea how much I was waiting for the world to change.

I was expecting other people to change. I had victim mentality was the biggest paradigm shift of my recovery. I’m not the quintessential victim.

I’m not walking around. Never was going, what was me? The world is against me.

I can never win. That was not my attitude. So my victim mentality was much more subtle.

It was, well, you know, if he would only blah, blah, blah, or if she would only blah, blah, blah, or I would get like, here’s a good example. I was mad all the time in traffic, like traffic was happening to me personally. And what I was able to unpack is that subconsciously I had this belief that there shouldn’t be traffic, at least not when I’m driving.

Meanwhile, highways, they were built for traffic.

I love it. I love how far you’ve come and I’m the same way. I’m just loving how I get to make very committed decisions to live my best life now.

But if someone who’s listening is not quite at that point yet, they’ve set their values, right? They’ve set their boundaries, but they start feeling the pushback behavior of people around them. Right.

Because they set those boundaries. How do you deal with that?

So, yeah, that’s the, that’s the second question. Second, most frequent question. First one is how do I deal with the feelings?

And the second one is how do I deal with pushback behaviors? So most, I want to start by saying that assume the best of intentions on everybody’s part, there are some toxic people out there who just won’t take no for an answer. They’re in a whole different category, but those people you often need to be rude.

And that’s just the way that it is because they’re not going to take no for an answer for like 99 point something percent of humans. You simply repeat yourself. That doesn’t work for me.

That doesn’t work for me. I don’t know if you’ve heard me, but that really doesn’t work for me. So you just repeat yourself.

So assume the best of intentions means things like, you know, there’s a whole host of reasons why people don’t honor our boundaries. One is maybe they forgot because you’ve never done it before. Maybe they don’t really believe you because you’ve never done it before.

Maybe they have poor boundaries. So it’s really difficult for them to respect other people’s boundaries. And as I’m saying that, I want to make note that people who have poor boundaries typically know I let people walk all over me.

What they probably don’t recognize is they’re probably walking all over other people’s boundaries because boundaries go both ways. And if you don’t have them in one direction, you often don’t have them in the other. So, you know, I would say just repeat yourself, but then sometimes you just become a little bit more firm.

I’m a fan of politeness. But again, if someone is toxic, if they’re dangerous, if someone’s safety is at stake, you know, if they have a mental illness, then screw politeness and be a jerk about it. You know, you do whatever you need to do.

One way that I got support that I don’t think I really understood for a couple of years how important it was is that I did the 12 steps the first time in ACA with a small group of other women. And I didn’t understand how supportive they were of me. They said to me things like, you know, like you don’t have to respond to that email or you don’t have to go, or you can say no, or are you sure you want to say it like that?

One time they were like, keep your hands away from the keyboard, you know? So, and then they also said things like you deserve to set this boundary. You are not a bad person for doing this.

So getting the support of emotionally stable, mature other people who are not emotionally tied to the situation can be super helpful. I often call it bookending. So you connect with them before and after you set your boundary.

And so what they can do is they can affirm you and support you. And then they can also help you process those difficult emotions. So you’re not carrying them with you into the situation where you set the boundary, and then you connect with them right after.

That’s why it’s called bookending. And you again, process your difficult emotions, and again, have them affirm you. And that helps you feel like, okay, there’s somebody who knows where I am.

They know what I’m doing. They know what I’m going through. And one of the reasons why feelings are so difficult for us as adults is because as children, we didn’t have mature adults to be with us in our feelings and process them with us.

So they feel overwhelming. So as adults, if we get another adult, that’s why I said an emotionally mature person who is not emotionally tied to the situation is a great person to connect with when it comes to boundaries, because they can help you kind of process your feelings and come to some kind of resolution with them. So you’re not carrying them into the situation.

And you’re less likely to launch them at the person you’re setting boundaries with.

And this is exactly where coaching comes in. Because yes, your friends and family, they mean the world for you. They want the best for you.

But yet they are emotionally tied to you and right situation. So they are not they are not in a judgment free zone.

Right, exactly. And truth be told, if you have more boundaries, you probably have a number of people around you with poor boundaries. So it’ll be hard.

So you’re right, that is actually a very important part of, of coaching, like one of the things I do for my private client, well, I do, I guess, for group clients, too, is I have a telegram, so they can message me anytime they want. And they’re like, what do I say? Or how do I handle this?

Or what, like in the moment when something is going on. And that is so helpful. And I provide that because man, do I wish I had that.

Yeah.

Thank you for all your wisdom, Barb. When you need a picker upper, what is a favorite quote of yours that you resort to?

So as I mentioned, I have a 70 page Word document of quotes. So this is a tough one. But this is one that helps me a lot in my business.

And it’s go as far as you can see, when you get there, you can see further.

Oh, that’s beautiful.

Thank you so much for sharing. And where can we find you, Barb?

Well, I just came out with a boundary building starter kit, and it’s at boundaries starter kit.com.

If you go there, it will take you to sign up for the starter kit. And also we are on my webpage. So everything about me is there on my podcast, my Instagram, my newsletter, my coaching programs, my free stuff, you know, all that stuff is on that same on that same site.

So boundaries starter kit.com. It’s a multimedia kit with like some of my absolute best content, as well as three lessons from my 12 part curriculum. Beautiful.

Thank you.

You’re welcome.

Awesome.